Systema PTW poor preformance

Ok Im going to vent a little here because so far my PTW experience has not been a good one.

I bought a SCK about one month ago, I assembled it myself and everything went togeter great. However, first game I brougt it out I keeped burning the fuse, it turned out it was the uselees setscrew at the bottom of the grip was tightening itself on the motor and drawing too much power. Madmax figuered it out and it was working again in no time.

My next problem with the ptw has benn alot more agravateing however, The gun chop balls like craysy and misfeeds like no tomowrow! I understand the PTW is picky on its bbs I have been useing bb bastards and MT as they are usualy recomended by ptw owners. however whatever make of bb i still get the same problem. I Took the followers out of the mags however they did not remedy the situation. it will constantly stop shooting in the midle of the mag, then a couple of taps on the mag and she is fine for say 10 shots. And will chop about 10% of the mag.


I payed good money for this gun and I am frankly quite disapointed if this is normal behaviour. I cant imagine any law enforcemnt agency useing ptw if they all have this problem.

While shooting today the cylinder that came with the gun the cylinder head also unthreaded itself as they seem to all be doing lately... wow great...


Seems like the bolt catch is not really working like its supposed to as i rarely have to press it when changeing mags...

Overall im gettting frustrated, the feeding issue is extremly anoyeing as it is barely gameable as-is, as im always clearing jams or takeing out the mag and knocking it.


I hope this problem is fixable as im about to dump it and go back to my trusty tm m16

[MadMax]

It sounds like your mags may be contaminated by dust. PTW magazines are very filth intolerant because of the doublestack bb arrangement. The doublestack configuration exerts some sideload whereas the single stack has the pellets only pushing vertically. This sideload can cause jamming inside the mag.

If you start having misfeeds, very carefully remove a magazine and look to see if the bbs are not pushed up against the mag top. If they're stuck inside the mag and are pushed up when you thunk the mag then you have a conclusive sign that this is the problem. If the bolt catch is not activating on an empty mag, it's likely that the follower has not risen and actuated the catch so I suspect that the follower is stuck down.

Disassemble your mags by pushing out the top pins and removing the plastic shells out the top. Disassemble them and clean the passages out with a q-tip and reassemble.

[SBranson23]

Kokanee had similar problems with one of his mags. I took it apart to look at it and the channels for the 2 little retaining clips (that hold the bb's in) were damaged:



Not exactly easy to see here but the first pic is a normal mag. The arrows are pointing to the part that is damaged in the second pic. (shown again with the red lines) In the first they're smooth. In the second, they've split and the plastic is bent into the bb channel and impeding the bbs. You can tell by how much these pins move laterally. Likely cause of the damage was a weakened part that failed when the retaining clip was forced laterally rather than down against the spring.

It's one option or does this happen with all your mags.

Chopping bbs could be due to the barrel being slightly rotated and the bb's aren't passing into the hop-up chamber cleanly. The locating pin in the top of the barrel is not the best fit in some receivers allowing some rotation in the SCKs (mine included but I replaced the pin with a larger one fashioned from the end of a drill bit)

And another for chopping is that the O-ring in the center of the cylinder head is worn.

It's my thought that the cylinder head failure of late is due to a design change. Cleric(?) posted photos of the lock-tite maintenance/fix and I noticed that his cylinder head attaches differently than mine (which are about 1.5 years old now)
I am going to take a couple of photos and mention this to Wallace so that word may get back to Systema about it... if it hasn't already.

[mcguyver]

Originally Posted by pawscal

I bought a SCK about one month ago, I assembled it myself and everything went togeter great.

Famous last words.

Seriously, to me, every problem you have explained all seem to be assembly related. The feeding issue could very well be a rotated barrel. The set screw tightening could be due to you missing the small bearing between the set screw and the motor shaft. The mag follower interlock issue could also be due to a rotated barrel.

These guns are not "easy" self assembly. It's seductive to think that you can save $500 just by spending a couple of hours putting one together. Nearly everyone who has bought and tried the kit has had some kind of issue, from minor to extreme. The fact that this thread exists means you have assembled a gun out of you league, and do not know enough about them to fix the problem. It's like building a house because you watched a TV show where someone else built one.

Sorry to be be blunt here, but this should be a lesson to all those considering a kit.

[Daes]

Originally Posted by pawscal;580066I

bought a SCK about one month ago, I assembled it myself and everything went togeter great.

Originally Posted by mcguyver

Famous last words.

Jeez, forum post after forum post, seeing the same thing posted. People being disappointed with the SCK. When I grabbed my PTW I had two choices, a Kit for $2000 or an assembled on for $2200. Though the kit was the model I wanted, the assembled one, was just that, assembled. Having had more headaches modding TM guns to death and spending the equivalent as a PTW MAX. I decided that enough was enough, get the gun assembled, use ONLY Systema Batteries, and keep reading the PTW forums for updates and issues so I could catch them before they became a problem (cylinder screw) or made a bad purchase (490 motors).

Seriously, as PTW's become more popular in Canada, ASC really needs to make a sticky on "suggestions" for first time owners. Save us all the headache of blowing a ridiculous amount of money on something that unless instructions are carefully followed, can ruin your day and bank account.

-Daes

There is no doubt i regret buying the challege kit, I learned my lesson however that is not going to fix my problem

I reaaly doubt its the mags as they are about 2 games old, but i will check them

[Blackthorne]

Locktite is your friend. Once you get it sorted out, lock everything in place that might self get backed off by normal use.

[manchovie]

bb chopping could also be caused by your mag sitting too high in the magwell. do your magazines click in easy enough? i've had this problem with several sck's if you like you can bring it in to the shop and i'll take a look at it.

[leblanc74]

Originally Posted by Daes

Jeez, forum post after forum post, seeing the same thing posted. People being disappointed with the SCK. When I grabbed my PTW I had two choices, a Kit for $2000 or an assembled on for $2200. Though the kit was the model I wanted, the assembled one, was just that, assembled. Having had more headaches modding TM guns to death and spending the equivalent as a PTW MAX. I decided that enough was enough, get the gun assembled, use ONLY Systema Batteries, and keep reading the PTW forums for updates and issues so I could catch them before they became a problem (cylinder screw) or made a bad purchase (490 motors).

Seriously, as PTW's become more popular in Canada, ASC really needs to make a sticky on "suggestions" for first time owners. Save us all the headache of blowing a ridiculous amount of money on something that unless instructions are carefully followed, can ruin your day and bank account.

-Daes

+1 here,

just purchase the systema pre-assembled by professionnals....I was also tempted for getting the kit and bring it to a gunsmith; but why bother with the headaches....to me that extra 200 is well worth the cost...

By the way, I ckecked out the prices on Systema's Max and they are around the 2200 to 2300$ ball park now in at A&A and Dave's Surplus, seems to me that the retailers are getting them cheaper now, and I beleive that systema is clearing out their inventory to make room for the Max2's...

the mags click in easy. I just cant see why everything simply goes it its place its not like there is any adjustemnts on those things right?

[MadMax]

When you say that you do not have to thumb the bolt release when changing mags, does your PTW stop cycling on an empty mag an automatically resets on an full mag? If your PTW has ceased firing on an empty mag and you remove the mag, will the mechbox cycle right after removing the mag?

Try this other test:

Remove the mag catch and hold the magazine into the receiver by hand. I would say that EVERY SCK built PTW that I have seen required some degree of mag catch modification to assure good registration in the mag well.

[trevor]

to me it sounds like your mags are not feeding well. I removed my followers and replaced them with 2 red bb's glued together. This has made the mag feed much better. I also opened the mag and found chuncks of mud after 1 game. I don't know how they got there but my dump pounch had some crap in it from pushing the bush. In order for the gun to stop firing the follower must be pushing up so it can trip the switch (look on the oposite side of the mag and you will see the catch that pushes the trip).

[thePiRaTE!!]

The crazy BB chopping occuring and the piston head thread loosening are inter related. Once the threading begins to loosen, the piston head sits further forward and extends the metal nozzle too quickly and hacks the BB. Its very likely that when you reassemble the cylinder, that chopping will also cease. Furthermore, once you begin to chop BBs, the bits will begin to foul the mechbox/cylinder via the nozzle. I would recommend opening it all up and cleaning it out, you will likely find a lot of white chunks in there.

[LUTNIT]

Geeze, my SCK went together smooth as butter, only two problems are the SystemA QC checked cylinder head unscrewing and I once got water in the receiver during heavy rain and my full auto became 3rnd burst. However, to add to SystemA QC problems, my SCK came with my very own free of charge metal shard in the preassembled mechbox, it seized the trigger. Its understandable that prebuilt guns are much better because they are factory TESTED, and on my Grandmothers grave if I ever get another PTW its going to be prebuilt, but SystemA isn't flawless either.

I have had the issue of bolt release as well. It stops firing on an empty mag and wont fire without a mag but as soon as I put a fresh mag in it is able to fire again without hitting the bolt release.