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WIP: Diemaco/Colt Canada C7/C8 Reference Guide

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Old December 31st, 2012, 06:08   #1
MaybeStopCalling
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WIP: Diemaco/Colt Canada C7/C8 Reference Guide



0. INTRODUCTION

Happy New Year! I still have to add pictures, but I felt I was holding off on this long enough.

First off, given this is a Canadian site with serving members of the Canadian Forces, if you see an error, please let me know. I've scraped together a good six months of research to create this, but obviously without peer reviewed articles mistakes will happen. Second, thanks to everyone on ASC for all the help. I remember trying to start my C8 project, and thinking "Well, I'll maybe slap on an ELCAN and call it a day..." next thing I know, I'm trying to find a CADEX Grip in god knows where. Anyways...

A simple look through the picture threads shows that the AR-15s dominate, ranging from old school XM177s to the latest M4A1 with everything and the kitchen sink thrown on. However, this being a Canadian site, much interest has gone into the service weapons of the Canadian Forces, the C7 Rifle Family and the C8 Carbine Family. Every so often a thread will pop up with questions about these weapons, and quite frequently the same questions are asked over and over. I remember getting my first carbine and wanting to change it into a C8FTHB. Mistakes were made along the way, and while learning from these mistakes was fun, paying for them was not. So, consider this a constantly evolving document on what you need to build one of these weapons.

The C7/C8 families came into being after the conclusion of the SARP program in 1983. This program was intended to find a replacement for Canada’s ever aging fleet of C1 and C2 rifles. Trials were performed to find a rifle to replace the C1, and a light machine gun to replace the C2. The M16 had won the rifle portion of the competition, beating out rifles such as the FN FNC in a variety of tests. Lessons were taken from the United States Marine Corps’ M16A1 improvement project, and by 1987 the first order of C7/C8s were delivered. Since then, these weapons have been modernized in order to keep up with advances in weaponry.

1. THE ORIGINAL RIFLES & CARBINES

C7 Original: The original C7 was essentially a Colt Model 715 with a brass deflector installed. It differed from the M16A2 of the time by opting for the A1 style rear sights instead of the A2 style rear sights. An A2 stock was installed, but a shorter stock for smaller personnel was optional. This was called the “CS” stock and was relatively rare. For larger personnel, spacers for the stock were also optional. The C7 was able to fire in automatic compared to the M16A2, and was issued with plastic “Thermold” magazines. (On a personal note, this was the first rifle I ever fired, and it has a special place in my heart. It also was much lighter than I expected.) A detail often missed (Or rightly ignored, due to its small significance) is that the C7 family eschews the square front sight post for a round sight post 0.050 inches in diameter. As well the “big head” forward assist can be found on some C7s if they have not been replaced with the modern variant. All C7 variants come with triangle handguard caps.

C7A1: The C7A1 upgrade started coming in the early 1990s. At that time, there was interest in equipping Canadian soldiers with optics in order to increase their accuracy, at the expense of tunnel vision. Notice was taken of ELCAN’s prototype “Wildcat” sight installed on the Colt entry for the American ACR project. This sight would become the Elcan C79 sight. However, at this time, the MIL-STD-1913 rail had not been standardized yet. Working with A.R.M.S. Company, a 14 slot weaver type rail was developed, and subsequently licensed from A.R.M.S. by the Canadian military. Prototypes were equipped with a vacuum bonded rail, where production models were equipped with rails milled directly into the upper receiver. A couple of years after, MIL-STD-1913 was standardized at 13 slots on a AR-15 upper. This difference, when it existed, meant that C7 accessories could fit on MIL-STD-1913 rails, but the opposite was often hit or miss depending on the attachment. Also note that unlike most modern flat top rifles, the C7 doesn't use a F marked Front Sight Triangle as the Canadian upper is apparently lower than a MIL-STD-1913 railed upper.

Warning: I am not sure if the C7A1s that were created from the original C7s were ever remarked as C7A1s, it seems as if the second batch ordered around the turn of the millenium did have C7A1 markings.

C8 Original: The original C8 is essentially a Cold Model 723 with a different barrel installed. Compared to the C7’s 20 inch barrel and 12 inch handguards, the C8 ran with a 14.5 inch barrel and 6 inch handguards. This barrel was unique in that it had a .75 inch diameter until just before the FSB, where it immediately stepped down to a thinner diameter .560 diameter until the flash hider, where it increased in diameter quickly, resulting in a cone like appearance that the flash hider screwed onto. This barrel was one of three used in the prototype stage of the American M4 project. Initial rifles were equipped with two position vinyl-aluminum CAR stocks, which were later replaced by Fiberlite stocks. Also note that the buffer tube on ALL rifles with a carbine stock assembly were held on with spanner wrench type nuts, not the more recent castle nuts. Original C8s also came with plastic “Thermold” magazines, and many exist in a semi upgraded state, where they are issued to staff such as medics who need a lighter weapon. The thermold magazines were replaced with Labelle Black Teflon magazines starting in 1995.

C8 Flat Top (A1 or FT): With the move to the C7A1 and ELCAN setup, the C8 Flat Top, more commonly known as the C8A1, was adopted in the early stages of the Afghanistan war. C8A1s also came with four position buffer tubes, though there never was a clear date where the old tubes were no longer in use, versus the newer tubes. Apart from these differences there is no difference from the C8A1. C8A1s are seen with the BUIS, ELCAN, or for the first part of OP ATHENA, with EOTech 552 sights.

C8 Flat Top, Heavy Barrel (FTHB): The C8, Flat Top, Heavy Barrel, known as the C8FTHB, was the CF version of the C8SFW without a KAC RIS, preferring to use the TRI-AD mount. The C8SFW and C8FTHB differ primarily from the C8A1 family due to the inclusion of a cold forged 16 inch heavy barrel with a “Simon Sleeve.” The Simon Sleeve, near the muzzle of the barrel, allows for mounting of the grenade launcher and bayonet, though due to the extended length of the barrel (15.9 inches versus 14.5 inches) the bayonet will noticeably protrude less. The SFW and the FTHB also have sling attachment points on the lower reciever, replacing the end plate. Unlike the SFW, the FTHB retains the standard M16A2 pistol grip and AR-15 front sight. The C8FTHB was used in the Afghanistan era, and is currently being upgraded to A3 standard. Many C8FTHBs still exist in armouries. Of note is that the barrel profile is consistently heavy with no stepdowns, comparably to a M4A1 SOCOM barrel - The barrel being a signifigant enough upgrade that the internal tracking designation for the FTHB was "C8A1HB" (FTHB is a marketing name.)

2. THE MIDLIFE UPGRADE (MLU) PROGRAM

Background: The majority of this information is taken from the Army.ca wiki. The C7A1, though somewhat innovative at its time, had quickly become incompatible with the battlefield. Soldiers frequently were unable to use the fixed length buttstock with their body armour, and the lack of mounting options meant that they were unable to mount items such as IR designators and flashlights, leaving them at a disadvantage during night operations. The C79 sight was either unserviceable due to broken mounts, or just plain worn out. Alpha Company, 1 PPCLI had trialled the M5 RAS from KAC with great success, increasing their effectiveness with the equipment they were able to mount. Faced with several issues requiring fixes in the era before increased military spending, a “Mid Life Upgrade” program was created, albeit on a limited budget. From this program, the C7A2 was spawned, and the C8A3 would soon follow. The C7A2 was built up from the C7A1, whilst the C8A3 was built up from the C8FTHB. (For those confused by the lack of the C8A2, the C8A2 is a C8FTHB, but with a shorter 14.5 inch heavy barrel and no “Simon Sleeve.” This weapon is not in CF service, but is rather marketed towards foreign and law enforcement buyers.) The following changes were made:

Green Plastic Furniture: Black is one of the easiest colours to spot when camouflaged, and the outline of a rifle is very distinctive. To solve this problem, the MLU specified that the plastic furniture on the rifle should be coloured differently to break up the outline of the rifle. Thus, several components had their colour changed to Canadian Average Green. These were the handguards, the ELCAN covering, the pistol grip, and the stock. While documents specify that this furniture is to be new and manufactured using Canadian Average Green coloured polymer, several rifles reportedly had their furniture spray painted with OD paint, which obviously wore off. Newer handguards have some sort of interlocking system that in theory makes the two halves more secure than on typical A2 handgrips.

OTIS Grip-kit: The OTIS grip kit is a small cleaning kit that can fit into the void inside the pistol grip of a AR-15 type rifle.

Sling Attachment Point: The revised sling attachment point was intended to allow for a more comfortable attachment of the sling, and allow for the use of an one point sling. It replaces the receiver end plate with a similar plate that includes a loop to slide the webbing of the sling through. This modification is also seen on C8FTHBs.

CADPAT Two-Point Sling: This was a slightly longer version of the prior patrol sling that was issued with the C7 and C7A1. It differed by being made out of Cadpat Nylon, as well as incorporating a metal clip that would attach to the new sling attachment point quickly. It never made it out of prototyping, with users opting to use the patrol sling first introduced when the C7 entered service. A 1 point bungie sling was issued at some point during the Afghanistan conflict- off the shelf, with a desert MARPAT pattern. According to one veteran, it was ditched for private purchase.

CADEX Rail and Folding Grip: The CADEX Rail and Grip came into official issue with the MLU project, and consists of a folding handgrip and a short 4.3 inch rail segment that can be screwed into the C7’s plastic handguards. The CADEX Grip is sometimes replaced by users with their own personal grips, for comfort or weight savings among many reasons.

CAR Stock: A four position Canadian Average Green stock was installed on all MLU rifles. These were similar to the older type M4 stocks, instead of the now common “LE” stocks. Diemaco installed these with a rubber buttpad, and uniquely, these stocks are textured on the upper half portion with a light pattern.

Accuwedge: The Accuwedge is a polymer wedge that fits behind the rear lower receiver pin. This device was meant to decrease the slop, or “rattle” between the two receivers and improve accuracy. In practical use though, most found it to offer no real benefits, with the penalty of making the receivers extremely hard to close.

TRI-AD Rail Mount: The TRI-AD is a bolt on attachment that fits around the front sight base. Designed by a former Master Warrant Officer in the Canadian Forces, it is a Diemaco invention. Vaguely resembling a pitchfork, it consists of three rail segments surrounding the front of the hand guards, and allows for the attachment of accessories such as laser designators and flashlights. The reasoning behind the TRI-AD is not clear, considering that the KAC M5 RAS was trialed to great success with some units in Bosnia. It was reported that it was purely a cost decision. Important to note is that the TRI-AD will only work with slim, CAR type grips as used on Canadian rifles, and not the new oval M4 grips the Americans use. Certain regiments, such as the 3rd Battalion, PPCLI, keep a stock of RAS units for use as required, and many troops decide to buy their own solutions. The TRIAD tends to make rifles extremely forward heavy, and for some reason is missing on a fair number of C7A2s. Close Protection and CANSOF use the KAC RAS instead.

Ambidextrous Charging Handle: It appears to be a standard AR-15 charging handle modified with an enlarged latch. This extended latch consists of two components: The extended hook on the left side, and a smaller hook leading behind the charging handle. The purpose of the former is to assist in tactical drills, given the movement towards keeping the strong arm on the pistol grip whenever possible. The purpose of the latter is to allow a left handed user to do the same. This upgrade is maligned for the obtrusiveness and lack of durability it possesses. The extended hook often catches on gear or uniforms, and in certain situations can be mangled due to this obtrusiveness. Given the relative ease of removing the charging handle, some choose to install the older, standard charging handle, at the expense of usage when shooting from the weak side.

Ambidextrous Magazine Catch (Ambi-Catch): The Ambi-Catch is a simple, drop in replacement for the standard AR-15 magazine catch. It allows the manipulation of the magazine catch from both sides. Originally made by Norgon in the United States, it is licensed for production by Diemaco. The Ambi-Catch is also often swapped out for the standard AR-15 magazine catch as some users may find that pressing the rifle against their chest or other surface unintentionally drops their magazine.

Ambidextrous Fire Selector: Nothing much to say here- Just an ambidextrous selector. Of note is that the right side selector is not a perfect mirror of the left side selector. The former is shortened so that users gripping the pistol grip with their right hand have a comfortable grip.

ELCAN C79A2: For information on the C79A2, please refer to Section 4, Sighting and Aiming Systems.

3. THE MIDLIFE UPGRADE (MLU) RIFLES & CARBINES

C7A2: The C7A2s were generally built up from C7A1 uppers and either C7A1 or C7 lowers. The fixed length stock was discarded, as well as the rest of the plastic furniture. The receivers were stripped and refinished, and the characters “A2” were engraved into the lower receiver markings after “C7,” or over “A1” in the case of the C7A1. From this point, barrels and the front sight triangles were replaced, and other components either refurbished or discarded as required. The buffer assembly was pulled off to install the sling attachment plate, then a new carbine length buffer tube was installed. Finally, the rifle was reassembled with the new parts as described in the previous section, before being shipped back to units. The transition to the C7A2 was completed in late 2011, when reserve units finally received their rifles.

C8 Flat Top, Heavy Barrel A3 (FTHBA3): These are a unique case. About 400 lower receivers manufactured for the C8FTHB series were instead diverted to the new manufacture of C8A3 rifles. Thus, these receivers were stamped with an “A3” after the originally stamped “C8FTHB.” In all other regards, these rifles are C8A3s.

C8A3: The C8A3 is the current issue carbine of the Canadian Forces. The C8A3 is a C8FTHB with several of the C7A2 project modifications. The C8A3 comes issued with an EoTech 552 Holographic sight, though Elcan C79A2s are used as well.

4. SIGHTING & AIMING SYSTEMS

Elcan C79 & C79A2: Originally developed by Elcan as the Wildcat for the Colt Advanced Combat Rifle, the Elcan C79 came into existence in 1991 with the C7A1. It is a 3.4x combat sight. Reception to the Elcan C79 family has been tepid, to say the least. While the optical glass offers unparalleled clarity and quality, adjustments are not internal, but external on the base. This has led to recurring situations where the zero of the weapon has been lost, or more urgently, the entire sight falling off the weapon from an impact such as one found in paratrooping. This issue was partially rectified with the release of the C79A2 as a part of the upgrades for the C7A2. The C79A2 differs cosmetically from the C79 by having an olive green rubber covering and the characters “C79A2” etched on the mount on the left side. Internally a spring clip was added to reduce the issues with zero drift. Both sight generations have moulded rubber backup sights on top, though wear will damage and render these sights ineffective after time.

EoTech 552: This sight was first issued to Canadian soldiers for Roto 0 of OP ATHENA, to be mounted on C8A1s. This sight, powered by two AA batteries, holographically projects a reticule that does not suffer from parallax shift found on red dot sights. This sight is much preferred for CQB, though it does lack the ability to reach out and touch someone at 400m as well as the ELCAN.

Diemaco BUIS: The BUIS is a plastic sight that screws onto the rail on top of the rifle, and is designed such that it fits into the divot created by the forward slant of the ELCAN base. It’s cheap, useful, but fragile. Metal prototypes are out there, but extremely rare.

Insight PEQ-2 & PAQ-4: The PEQ-2 and PEQ-4 are IR devices used to enhance the ability of the Canadian soldier to fight during low light conditions. These devices are mounted either on the TRI-AD, an aftermarket rail system, or on top of the handguard using a special adaptor or screw on rail when required, such as when a M203 is installed. PEQ-2 devices are issued to organizational leaders, such as platoon ICs, section ICs, and anyone who requires it. Else, most troops are equipped with PEQ-4 devices. This is reportedly changing, however, as the CF is planning on moving all users to the PEQ-2. CANSOF uses the PEQ-15 and PEQ-16 on their rifles.

Insight M3X (Long): The long version of Insight M3X in black is currently the issue flashlight for the C7/C8 family.

5. MAGAZINES

Plastic “Thermold” Magazine: Diemaco has a hard-on for these. Whether it’s because they look cool or they add some flare, nobody knows. These were intended for disposable use. With the budget of the 90s, that never came to fruition, and these magazines were reused. The material was weak (It was suggested this was because someone in Ottawa decided to tweak the formula the original manufacturer used, but this is unconfirmed.) and often a troop would pull out a magazine, only to have the feed lips snap and his entire load of rounds eject. These magazines were phased out for USGI type magazines manufactured by Diemaco in the mid-90s. Canadian Thermold magazines can be distinguished by a maple leaf molded onto the left side, near the bottom.

USGI Magazine: Canadian troops currently use USGI type magazines in their C7/C8 series rifles, though uniquely it seems, the coating/finish on the Canadian series magazines tends to be much darker than the grey seen on American magazines. This is the result of the coating used by the magazine's manufacturer, Labelle.

6. AFTERMARKET KIT & EQUIPMENT

A General Note on Aftermarket Kit & Equipment: First off: Some aftermarket kit is seen installed in Canada, it depends on the regiment in question. Some units have very understanding Sergeant Majors, some do not. More aftermarket kit is generally seen when deployed, it really does depend on a variety of factors. Some rotations were unable to use any aftermarket kit, where others were allowed to do pretty much as they please. Thus, there have been cases where C7s and C8s were customised past recognition, and other cases where they remained stock, except maybe for wear. A general rule of thumb if you do plan on making your build unique is that any aftermarket kit is “bolt on.” This means if you need an armourer, it’s not going to fly. So, stuff that you can pull on, pull off is okay, like sights or grips. Stuff you need to remove the barrel nut for, or the buffer tube for... No. In the real world, you’d get one very, very pissed off Weapons Tech and EME Officer, (and probably charged) if you tried to install a MagPul UBR...

Also remember that KISS (Keep it Simple, Stupid) rules at the end of the day... it’s easy to bolt on everything, including a milspec kitchen sink (7075 aluminum, woo), but if you’re not very good at using it, it’s going to be pointless, and it’s gonna suck when you’re carrying your 18 pound C7 around. Keep it light, keep it useful, and you’ll be a happier camper with more money in your pocket.

Slings: The CADPAT sling never made it past the prototype stage, so you'll see a variety of options ranging from 1 point, 2 point, and 3 point slings. Soldiers also do make their own 1 point slings that attach to the vest.

Front Grip: The CADEX is frequently replaced with other options such as KAC grips, Surefire grips, or generally anything comfortable for the soldier. Many soldiers remove the rail completely and use just the handguards.

Lights: The Insight M3X is sometimes eschewed for other lights, such as those made by Surefire.

Sights: The ELCAN and EoTech sights are issued, but ACOGs and other sights such as Aimpoint Comp M2s and M4s can be found equipped on these rifles as personal purchases. CANSOF uses EoTech 553s and ELCAN Spectres as issue. Obviously something like a Tasco red dot would be out of place.

Rails: Rail Interface Systems are sometimes found replacing the plastic handguards and TRI-AD mount. Such items must be of high quality, and drop in however. They also cannot require the removal of the front sight triangle. So while something like a KAC RIS/RAS or DD Omega Bolt-on Rail should be okay, something requiring replacement of the barrel nut (Such as a Daniel Defense Lite Rail) is a complete no go.

Controls: Items such as the ambidextrous charging handle, the Ambi-catch, and less frequently the ambidextrous selector are replaced with their older counterparts in cases where it is felt their ambidextrous nature is a nuisance. For example, the Ambi-Catch, when held against the body, might cause a loaded magazine to drop free, or the new charging handle might get tangled on gear.

Stock: Collapsible stocks are sometimes replaced with models more modern than the CAR stock, such as the VLTOR IMOD or the Magpul CTR series. Stocks are less frequently replaced than the above items, however.

Pistol Grip: I guess you could replace it... but it’s definitely not as common as the other aftermarket kit.

7. THE SMALL DETAILS

Military Markings: There are many markings for the C8 body, and it’s easy to get this wrong. Diemaco rifles not meant for Canadian military service came marked with a stylized “D” on the magazine well, and the model information below. Rifles manufactured after Colt Canada bought Diemaco have the same design, but minus the Canadian Forces markings. Markings were made in the following manner for the C7s and C8s:

*Maple Leaf*
CANADIAN
FORCES
CANADIENNES
*Model Designation*
5.56 mm
*Serial Number*

So a certain C7A2 would have the following markings:

*Maple Leaf*
CANADIAN
FORCES
CANADIENNES
C7A2
5.56 mm
92AA00001

Now there’s a few other markings we have to be aware about. For newer models, these were often built on older C7 lowers. This means when engraving for a C7A2, for example, the A2 was printed years after the C7 marking, and filled in with white ink (For the initial order rifles, the second order had relatively white markings with the A2 in red.) So the text for that line is not centred. Also note the marking for millimetre is in lower case, compared to the rest of the text being capitalized. These markings appeared as follows:

MADE IN CANADA
FABRIQUE AU CANADA
*Diemaco “D” Design*

The Diemaco "D" design was removed sometime around 2010 and replaced with the Colt Canada logo on the new rifles. Occasionally one will find the Diemaco logo under the pistol grip, but the Colt Canada logo is standard as directed by Colt USA. More information on these markings can be found in this particular ASC post. Note that due to the text not lining up correctly in the forum software, I am including a reference picture:


This is what current receivers look like:


Fire Control Group: The fire control selector has three modes. These are SAFE, SEMI, and AUTO. Canadian rifles differ in their markings, compared to rifles such as the M16A2 or the M4A1. There are three markings instead: “S”, “R”, and “AUTO”. “S” stands for SAFE. “R” Stands for REPETITION, AKA SEMI, and “AUTO” is... well... AUTO. Despite the presence of a notch on the selector, there are no markings for left handed users.

Serial Number: Manufacturer markings are often replicated, and sometimes with alarming inaccuracy. This must be rectified for an accurate C7/C8 build. Serial numbers are of the format XXAAYYYYY. XX represents the year of manufacture. AA is the weapon code. Lastly, YYYYY is a unique, five digit identifier for that particular lower receiver. Most C7 lowers were made in 1987 to 1991, and a second order was placed in 1998-2000. Original C7s are identified with the code “AA.” Original C8s are identified with the code “AB.” C8FTHBs, C8FTHBA3, and C8A3s are identified with the code “AE.” For example, a receiver marked “05AE01024” was built in 2005, was intended for a C8FTHB (Given the year of manufacture), and has the unique identifier of 01024, indicating it is the 1024th rifle to come off the production line for that model. Further examples are shown below:

200th C7 lower built in 1994: 94AA00200
C8A3 lower built in 2009, 90th off the line: 09AE00090
C8 built in 1996, first off the line: 96AB00001
C7A2 with an original C7 lower built in 1987, 6285th off the production line: 87AA06285

The idea is that the lower determines the serial number. A rifle will have an extremely old serial number if the lower is that old, regardless if the refinished rifle was just shipped from Colt Canada to the local reserve regiment in a sealed crate.

8. THE FUTURE

SARP II (Small Arms Replacement Project II): By 2012, the C7 will have been in service for about a quarter century. While the Americans have kept their AR-15 pattern rifles going for well over half a century, the CF has been looking for replacements superior in reliability, control, and lethality. SARPII was the program intended to find this rifle’s successor, but so far nothing concrete has been seen. SARPII called for an increased integration of computer and communications electronics on a bullpup rifle.

SAM (Small Arms Modernization): This project is intended to replace the Browning 9mm pistol, the Ranger rifle, the M203, and the M2 .50 cal. It is intended to upgrade the C7/C8 family, the C6, and the C9, as well as their ammunition and accessories. The project should be complete by 2019 or 2020. Concerning the C7/C8 family, the SAM is intended to fix many of the complaints about the rifles in use during Afghanistan. This includes changes to sling attachment points, a new rail system, changes to the cocking handle, and the possibility of a powered rail system being trialed. Most tellingly, the ELCAN C79 is out, with plans to replace it with a combined sight, allowing for the ability to shoot at distance, but at the same time perform CQB. The sight is intended to be similar to something such as a HAMR, or a combination ACOG and Doctor Optic. The C7/C8 family will be replaced starting between 2020 and 2026 by the NGSA. When the NGSA project is complete, the C7/C8 rifles will be stricken from inventory and placed into war stock, ending nearly 50 years of service.

9. WRAP UP

What has been written so far is only a small glimpse at this rifle, but should be enough for most readers to make informed decisions about their project’s intended direction. Sometimes, there will be questions, or parts that are unclear. In which case, you can always ask someone here for clarification.

10. USEFUL LINKS


Canadian Forces C7 Rifle Discussion @ ARFCOM
Canadian Forces C8 Carbine Discussion @ ARFCOM
Mid Life Upgrade Program Rifle, Carbine and Original Carbine @ ARFCOM

Last edited by MaybeStopCalling; September 2nd, 2014 at 18:44..
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Old December 31st, 2012, 11:58   #2
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WOW! this is by far the greatest guide EVER!

I always wanted to build a WA based C8A3 and this could probably help me the most.

but after seeing the IURs. got any idea how to make or build?
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Old December 31st, 2012, 14:05   #3
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Old December 31st, 2012, 14:52   #4
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Wow, this is great! I've been wanting to start gathering some information about this for a little while.
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Old December 31st, 2012, 14:53   #5
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Very impressed with this Synergy. My WE based C8 doesn't really fall into any particular class, it's a bit of a mash up of a few designations, but you will actually find stuff like that kicking around

My next build it going to be an AEG C7A1.

I agree, with Jordan, with the growing interest in C7 and C8 Rifles and canadian gear, this should be stickied as a reference.
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Like seriously dude. The incredible lack of common sense in the question could be scientifically investigated for evidence of a black hole.
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Old December 31st, 2012, 15:27   #6
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WOW! this is by far the greatest guide EVER!

I always wanted to build a WA based C8A3 and this could probably help me the most.

but after seeing the IURs. got any idea how to make or build?
The IURs are tricky... Colt Canada doesn't sell to anyone but LE/MIL, so getting an RS one is going to be near impossible. I don't see an airsoft version coming out any time soon, so you either will have to make it yourself, or install a similar looking freefloat rail onto a standard upper receiver and do the necessary aesthetic mods. I'll look into this to see if I can't find anything.

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Originally Posted by Gato View Post
Very impressed with this Synergy. My WE based C8 doesn't really fall into any particular class, it's a bit of a mash up of a few designations, but you will actually find stuff like that kicking around

My next build it going to be an AEG C7A1.

I agree, with Jordan, with the growing interest in C7 and C8 Rifles and canadian gear, this should be stickied as a reference.
Thanks, it means a lot. Yours was actually the main inspiration for me to build my own... now here I am torn between building an All Black C7A2 upper, or a C8CQB.

Honestly, I'm just glad that the CF's mishmashing isn't as bad as the USAF's... trying to get a handle on those is damn near impossible.
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Old December 31st, 2012, 15:42   #7
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Originally Posted by Green Synergy View Post
Thanks, it means a lot. Yours was actually the main inspiration for me to build my own... now here I am torn between building an All Black C7A2 upper, or a C8CQB.

Honestly, I'm just glad that the CF's mishmashing isn't as bad as the USAF's... trying to get a handle on those is damn near impossible.
I'm glad myC8 was a success, I'm still trying to get hold of a blank WE Lower lol.

While my C8 was painted, I initially wasn't sure I'd made the right choice doing that, as it faded and I started putting on other parts like the charging handle and ejection port cover, I like the "replaced" and "worn" look it's taken on.

As for C7A2 or CQCQB, it depends on what you want and can work with, I've had people swear that M16 length rifles are no good for CQB, I say those people just need to learn how to properly handle their rifles, but it may also be a "personal" thing, being airsoft and all.

If you think you can rock a C7 length weapon in all situations, I say go for that initially, and build a C8 CQB upper later
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Like seriously dude. The incredible lack of common sense in the question could be scientifically investigated for evidence of a black hole.
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Old December 31st, 2012, 18:00   #8
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Nicely done Synergy, definitely vote for sticky

Edit: Almost all the C7's nowadays are still the ones from the late 80's and early 90's. If you look at pretty much all the A2's now, the lower receiver is engraved but then "A2" is painted on beside the engraved "C7" marking
Also, the ambi mag release and cocking handle don't actually cause any problems at all. It takes a bit of force to push the left side of the mag release, I've never had a mag fall out when my rifle is slung around me. For the cocking handle, I would say it snags rather than gets tangled. And it doesn't really snag all that much either (at least in my experience it doesn't)
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Old December 31st, 2012, 18:31   #9
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Originally Posted by Chris26 View Post
Nicely done Synergy, definitely vote for sticky

Edit: Almost all the C7's nowadays are still the ones from the late 80's and early 90's. If you look at pretty much all the A2's now, the lower receiver is engraved but then "A2" is painted on beside the engraved "C7" marking
This is correct, most A2 weapons are nothing more than refurb and upgrade, using many of the original components where possible.
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Like seriously dude. The incredible lack of common sense in the question could be scientifically investigated for evidence of a black hole.
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Old December 31st, 2012, 20:02   #10
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ouch. its 1 peice.

perhaps I can locate an upper and pair it with a black 80% billit?
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Old January 1st, 2013, 12:00   #11
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Originally Posted by GBBR View Post
ouch. its 1 peice.

perhaps I can locate an upper and pair it with a black 80% billit?
Yeah, it is. I suggested the free float and some aesthetic mods to make it fit the role, but the more I think about it the more I realize it's going to be quite the tedious job.

Legalities of the 80% lower aside, getting the IUR seems like it'd be quite impossible. Quick search suggests that this is solely Colt Canada's creation, so like nearly everything else they make it's not going to be available unless it's a MIL/LE purchase. Now if Colt Manufacturing in general starts selling it, then it'd be a bit easier to get one. That being said, Colt might be able to get raw forgings to finish in the states, but they can't import completed upper receivers (Something about ITAR) so the chances of this... not good.

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Old January 1st, 2013, 12:47   #12
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Originally Posted by Green Synergy View Post
Yeah, it is. I suggested the free float and some aesthetic mods to make it fit the role, but the more I think about it the more I realize it's going to be quite the tedious job.

Legalities of the 80% lower aside, getting the IUR seems like it'd be quite impossible. Quick search suggests that this is solely Colt Canada's creation, so like nearly everything else they make it's not going to be available unless it's a MIL/LE purchase. Now if Colt Manufacturing in general starts selling it, then it'd be a bit easier to get one. That being said, Colt might be able to get raw forgings to finish in the states, but they can't import completed upper receivers (Something about ITAR) so the chances of this... not good.
Not entirely correct. There are ways to import/export completed uppers. And I mean legal ways, not the "Ship it to right across the border and go get it" that seems to be the ASC ITAR standard. They can be extremely frustrating and time consuming, not even close to worth the hassle. They can also be a complete pain in the ass with the requirement of a bunch of shit needing filled out at multiple stages of the process. I haven't done it in a few years and I don't fully remember the process, but I will say it's not even close to worth it.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 16:13   #13
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Changes made, thank you.
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Old January 4th, 2013, 23:37   #14
danhay
 
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The second last sub-point in section two is labelled 'Ambidextrous Charging Handle:' when it should probably read 'Ambidextrous Selector Switch' or some such thing.

Otherwise, this is a great document you''ve put together!

Cheers - Dan
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Old January 5th, 2013, 01:11   #15
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nice wright up, gotta build me a c8 type rifle now.
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Thanks Hectic,
While your posts are sometimes a difficult read, you sure are helpfull
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